Structured Learning Activities Research Articles

THE ROLE OF EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES IN ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT OF AN ISLAMIC-VALUE-BASED SCHOOL

Extracurricular activities are school-based initiatives aimed at developing the abilities of students, not only in terms of skill enhancement but also in gaining insights and knowledge while helping to shape the character of participants in their respective fields. In managing the school environment with an Islamic value system, there are inevitably numerous shortcomings. These may include a tight schedule for extracurricular practices, insufficient facilities, and a lack of maintenance for extracurricular inventories. It's not only the extracurricular activities that need attention; the factors influencing school environmental management must also be upheld. This ensures the execution of attitudes, the observance of rules, and adherence to school regulations. Similarly, implementing Islamic values places the responsibility on students to engage in religious activities while at school. This practice serves to facilitate a smoother workflow during various school activities, both inside and outside the classroom.
 This research aims to explore the role of extracurricular activities in the school environment management that implements Islamic values at Perguruan Rakyat 2 High School in Pondok Kelapa, East Jakarta. The application of Islamic values, encompassing faith (akidah), worship (ibadah), and morality (akhlak), serves as a foundational aspect of Islamic character education. These values are not only integrated into the formal learning process but also extend to various other activities within the educational institution. The successful implementation of these Islamic values relies on the support of educators or school authorities who are enthusiastic about reinforcing Islamic character education. Their dedication plays a crucial role in instilling these values, ensuring that they become ingrained in the character of students at Perguruan Rakyat 2 High School in Jakarta. This integration is achieved through a combination of structured learning activities and other engagements within the educational institution.
 The method employed in this research is a qualitative approach, specifically using a descriptive type. The research findings indicate that the application of Islamic values, in the form of written words derived from the obtained data sources, utilizes the Case Studies method. The aim is to obtain a comprehensive and in-depth overview. The results of this study reveal the roles of Islamic Education teachers and other educators in extracurricular activities within the school's environmental management that implements Islamic values at Perguruan Rakyat 2 High School in Jakarta. The development of extracurricular activities and the environmental management of the school, incorporating Islamic values, are found to be progressing well. This is attributed to the active involvement and optimal performance of Islamic Education teachers and other educators. The Case Studies method proves effective in providing a complete and nuanced understanding of the overall scenario.

Evaluating programme-wide course redevelopment within a learning management system

Introduction: Effective course design within the architecture of a learning management system (LMS) is crucial for achieving high-quality learning outcomes in blended and online courses (Bollinger & Martin, 2021; Spiceland et al., 2015; Vaughan, 2010). Implementing a consistent visual design template across multiple courses can promote student engagement and achievement of learning objectives (Ralston-Berg & Braatz, 2021). Other elements of effective course design include clear instructions, structured learning activities, and effective mechanisms for interaction and feedback (Baldwin et al., 2018; Martin et al., 2021). Method: A comprehensive redesign was conducted of the LMS component of 34 undergraduate course instances (20 blended on-campus courses; 14 online distance courses) across three programmes in the science and health faculties at a New Zealand university. The redesigned template aimed to improve the clarity and ease of navigation to important course information, structure student learning tasks, and provide a foundation for effective course delivery. The initial phase involved creating and testing the template. This was subsequently presented to faculty as a means to cultivate commitment and collaboration among academics, academic support teams, and administrative staff. The template was designed to minimise cognitive load to promote comprehension and retention (Schnotz & Kürschner, 2007). It incorporated evidence-based course components based on principles of effective course design, including detailed and comprehensive information on the course and assessments; weekly modules with clearly stated learning outcomes, task lists, lecture slides and recording links, required readings, tutorial and lab materials; assessment requirements; supplementary materials; and links to available course support (Bollinger & Martin, 2021). While maintaining a standardised visual design, the template was flexible to accommodate the specific needs of individual courses. Results and Discussion: An evaluation of the impact of the redesign project will be conducted. Data sources will include student surveys administered midway through and at the end of each course, as well as coded feedback from academic and support staff. The effect of the redesign on key student and instructor outcomes will be analysed. Based on research on effective blended and online course design, we expect our evaluation will uncover systematic benefits to student experience as measured by perceptions of course organisation and engagement of course material. For instructors, we anticipate that the standardised template will reduce time on administrative activities such as answering student emails, allowing them to focus on higher-value tasks. Conclusion: This study aims to provide valuable insights into effective practises for course design that promote student engagement and the achievement of intended learning outcomes. The project aligns with Ascilite 2023 subthemes. The focus on effective course design relates to subtheme 3 on digital pedagogy. Designing an effective online component of blended courses represents a key challenge for educators in a digital world. Additionally, the collaborations between academics, administrators, and support staff reflect subtheme 2 on building deeper partnerships within an institution. By evaluating a programme focused on enhancing blended learning through partnership and pedagogical research, this study will offer critical perspectives on key issues in teaching and learning in a digital world.

Peningkatan Keterampilan Dokkai (Pemahaman Bacaan) Menggunakan Metode Seidoku dan Tadoku Berbasis Capaian Pembelajaran

This study discusses using seidoku and tadoku methods in learning dokkai (reading comprehension) skills based on learning outcomes. This study was conducted by applying the action research method to improve reading comprehension competence. The research subjects focused on fourth-semester students of the Japanese Literature Study Program who took Shokyuu Dokkai (Basic Reading Comprehension) course. In its implementation, this research was conducted in two cycles of activities which included four stages, namely planning, action implementation, observation, and reflection. In the planning stage, the lecturer in charge of the course determines the learning outcomes of the course which are adjusted to the learning outcomes of the study program. Furthermore, at the implementation stage, learning activities are carried out in accordance with the Semester Learning Plan (RPS) that has been prepared. At this stage, the seidoku method is applied for structured learning activities, and the tadoku method for independent learning activities. At the observation stage, students' understanding of competence is observed and then analyzed. Finally, at the reflection stage, an evaluation of the shortcomings and strengths of the applied method is carried out to be able to design the next improvement step. Based on the formula for calculating the average (mean) of summative scores in two cycles and based on the evaluation of Shokyuu Dokkai learning activities, the use of seidoku and tadoku methods are effective in improving students' reading competence and comprehension.

Developing Leadership for Improvement

Improvement and action-oriented research approaches make iterative testing to learn about systems and adaptive change a central practice. As the need to develop the field’s capacity to improve grows, so does the need to develop leaders’ capacity for leading and conducting iterative cycles of testing. The present study reveals how EdD. candidates learn to investigate and specify problems and aims, develop the capacity to lead, and conduct iterative cycles of testing in schools and school districts. We draw on the implementation of core learning activities in one Educational Leadership Doctoral Program employing improvement science as a signature methodology. Findings suggest shifting candidate orientations, growth in the capacity to engage in iterative cycles for improvement of problem definition and actionable steps, and the ability to garner collegial engagement in improvement and iterative testing. Implications highlight the importance of designing and structuring learning activities beyond those that exist in traditional research methods courses to ensure adequate candidate preparation.

Latent trajectories of learning- and teacher-context behavior problems across the primary school transition

This study explores children's development of behavior problems in specific classroom situations characterized by meaningful teacher interactions (teacher contexts) and structured learning activities (learning contexts) during the first four years of schooling. Multidimensional growth mixture modeling was employed to detect unobserved subpopulations (latent classes) with common trajectories of teacher- and learning- context behavior among a US national sample (N = 3872) of children from low-income backgrounds. Analyses revealed three subpopulations with distinct behavior trajectories that were differentially associated with first-grade academic skills and social-emotional outcomes. Children with ‘Optimal’ and ‘Difficult’ school transitions had similar patterns of behavior problems in both Teacher and Learning contexts, whereas children with ‘Moderate’ school transitions had more divergent trajectories of behavior problems across context domains. Results are discussed in light of developmental theory and implications for practice.

How Does Student Access to a Virtual Learning Environment (VLE) Change During Periods of Disruption?

Higher Education often faces disruptions to teaching due to wider events, such as industrial action by staff or the recent COVID-19 pandemic (Li et al., 2022). Digital learning tools (such as Virtual Learning Environments, VLEs) can be used to support teaching and learning processes reducing the impact of disruptive events. This case study, compares student VLE behaviour across three consecutive cohorts featuring two “typical” university semesters (2016 and 2017), and one semester (2018) which featured industrial action. Learning analytics from students’ activity on the VLE system analyzed. Findings show that high- and middle-performing students tend to increase their use to compensate for the lack of teaching, whilst lower-performing students reduce their access possibly due to lower levels of self-efficacy and self￾regulation. These findings suggest that educators need to consider how VLEs could be designed to support students when learning should be delivered through an asynchronous online learning environment. For example, educators should consider designing VLE spaces that promote flexibility, and supporting self-regulation, whilst also providing clear guidance on structuring learning activities.

A TEACCH Class Model for Comprehensive Intervention in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder

Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) are pervasive developmental disorders that cover various aspects of development. Interventions using drugs are still not clearly proven to address the core problems of children with autism spectrum disorders, so interventions are directed at non-pharmacological approaches. The aim of this study is to examine the TEACCH class model for comprehensive interventions for children with ASD in all aspects of development. This research uses a qualitative approach. The data sources for this study were a vice principal and two teachers from one of the autism special schools in Malang, East Java, Indonesia. Data collection techniques through interviews and observation. Data analysis used the Miles & Huberman Flow Analysis Model. The validity of the data was carried out by triangulating sources, techniques, and theories. Research findings (1) The minimal TEACCH class model consists of a whiteboard, bench, visual support, and a sensory/quiet corner. Teachers apply TEACCH by implementing structured learning activities (clear, coherent, and predictable activities) and flexible ones (adjusting to the needs of each child) by involving an independent work system. (2) The application of TEACCH can improve the skills of autistic spectrum children in communication, social, emotional-behavior, and cognitive aspects.

Character-based Prophetic Education in Pondok Pesantren Wali Songo Ponorogo Indonesia

Pondok pesantren as an Islamic educational institution is unique in imparting character education. The character education takes place in accordance with Islamic teachings exemplified by Prophet Muhammad SAW. The formation of pesantren culture based on prophetic values is imperative for an effective character education. Prophetic-based character education in pesantren is conducted through intervention and habituation processes. The process of intervention is implemented and developed through various structured learning activities carried out within pesantren boarding schools. The process of habituation on the other hand is created and developed through various situations and conditions accompanied by enforcement that enable santri (students) to apply prophetic values in their daily activities – an important element for shaping their character.
 Keywords: pondok pesantren, character education, santri, Prophetic

Examining Pre-service Mathematics and Science Teachers’ Plans to Implement Culturally Relevant Pedagogy

ABSTRACT There is a need for greater guidance in preparing pre-service teachers to enact culturally relevant pedagogy while maintaining the content and rigor of mathematics and science in middle and secondary grades. This study investigated a group of pre-service teachers’ plans to implement culturally relevant pedagogy in middle/secondary mathematics and science classrooms. Through this action research study, we sought to apply an existing culturally relevant pedagogy framework to coursework showcasing instructional planning in middle/secondary mathematics/science methods courses. This analysis would serve to help teacher educators systematically define evidence of successful culturally relevant pedagogy-aligned instructional planning, as well as identifying areas for improvement. In the coursework reviewed, there were non-traditional and traditional approaches to structuring learning tasks and activities in order to integrate elements of culturally relevant instruction. Among our results, we concluded that methods instruction could emphasize instructional planning that begins with culturally-conscious frameworks that aim to disrupt historical power dynamics, rather than conclude by making culturally significant connections, thereby supporting more pre-service teachers in possibly developing radically transformed mathematics and science instructional plans.

Exploring Factors That Influence Student Engagement in Community-Engaged Learning Activities Within a Pharmacy Context

Objective. To investigate and identify factors that enhance and restrict Doctor of Pharmacy student engagement in mandatory and voluntary community-engaged learning activities.Methods. A phenomenological study exploring the motivations and barriers faced by pharmacy students in a mandatory community-engaged learning course and voluntary community-engaged learning activities (eg, community outreach) was conducted using semi-structured interviews. Fifteen students were randomly selected to participate in the interviews. Student responses were analyzed using qualitative thematic analysis.Results. Primary factors motivating student engagement in mandatory community-engaged learning included having structured learning activities for students and incorporating reflective learning. Motivating factors for students participating in voluntary community-engaged learning included personal interest in the topic, convenient location and time of activity, opportunity for career development, and the chance to advocate for the pharmacy profession. Overlapping motivations for both mandatory and voluntary community-engaged learning included developing a better understanding of and broader perspective on the diverse populations in the community and having a positive impact. Common barriers identified included having limited information about student responsibilities, being given a limited student role, and feeling unconfident or unprepared.Conclusion. Students perceived benefits from both mandatory and voluntary participation in community-engaged learning activities. However, opportunities exist for identifying and managing barriers to enhancing student engagement in community-engaged learning within a pharmacy program. Additionally, learning tools such as critical reflection can be used to further enhance student engagement with community-engaged learning activities.

Interprofessional identity: an ethnography of clinical simulation learning in New Zealand

BackgroundThis article explores the experiences of clinical healthcare students on an interprofessional simulation course in Auckland, New Zealand. The four-day course aims to provide a formative learning experience for final year medical, pharmacy, nursing, and paramedicine students. It focuses on building skills in professionalism, communication, leadership and interprofessional safe teamwork through structured learning activities and clinical simulation scenarios.MethodsIn 2018, we commenced focused ethnographic research involving participant observation, field notes, interviews, photography and ethnographic film.ResultsA total of 112 students participated in this research from the disciplines of medicine (n = 53), nursing (n = 27), pharmacy (n = 17), and paramedicine (n = 15). In a revisit to Van Gennep’s (1972) seminal work on liminality, we suggest that the course represents a liminal space where students’ ideas about what it means to be a healthcare ‘professional’ are challenged, disrupted and reconstructed. We observed students emerging from the course with transformed professional and interprofessional identities.ConclusionsWe posit that the ritualised and liminal nature of the course plays a role in the development of interprofessional identities by interrupting the reproduction of siloed biomedical culture. Students are challenged to become effective team members alongside other students and experts from other professions. We discuss these findings as they relate to medical and health sciences education.

METODE BELAJAR MANDIRI SEBAGAI PENGEMBANGAN KREATIVITAS BERFIKIR SISWA PADA MATA PELAJARAN Al-QUR’AN HADITS DI SMP JATI AGUNG WAGE TAMAN SIDOARJO

There are so many methods applied in the world of learning, related to the implementation of the 2013 curriculum, not only emphasizing pursuing material targets, but maximizing the learning process and developing student competencies, so that the learning process can be maximized and will produce quality output. Therefore students must be conditioned to carry out structured learning activities independently, for all general and religious subjects such as the Al-Qur'an Hadith can also be studied with independent learning methods so that students better understand the problems that arise and they will be younger to find and determine the solution it needs. This research method uses a qualitative descriptive approach. Namely a research procedure that produces descriptive data in the form of written or spoken words from people and observable behavior. The approach is directed at the individual's background holistically (intact). This study chose a qualitative research approach because the research problems were holistic, complex, dynamic and meaningful. And researchers intend to understand social situations in depth, find patterns and theories. To get accurate data, this research uses observation, interview, documentation, and questionnaire methods. Research result. has implemented the independent learning method in the subject of al-Qur'an Hadith only in classes classified as fluent class (L) in reading the Koran, namely classes VII A and VII B so as to explore some of the material contained in al- Their hadith Qur'an has no difficulty, be it material about tajwid, the meanings of mufrodats, and the contents of the verses of the Qur'an. This independent learning method can hone students' skills to find or solve problems given by the teacher with a sense of responsibility and self-confidence. Meanwhile, if it is implemented in a class that is not fluent (TL), then this method will not be suitable because their capacity in reading the Qur'an is very lacking

Immersive Experience during Covid-19: The Mediator Role of Alternative Assessment in Online Learning Environment

<p class="0abstract"><span lang="EN-US">Covid-19 pandemic has changed the education landscape hence students’ learning experience. The conventional face-to-face classroom has transformed into a synchronous online mode with minimal digital readiness. In the immense situations during the acquisition of knowledge, their learning absorptive capacity may be disrupted. To unpick their learning proficiency and design complex interactivity, this paper considers a digital platform for structured learning activities. The study particularly examines how various factors are associated with students’ online learning experience, particularly during the pandemic. An online survey of 312 respondents who used the Blackboard online learning platform was conducted, and a PLS-SEM analysis indicated that an alternative assessment mediated the relationship of learning readiness, student engagement, and student motivation toward student learning experience simultaneously. Overall, our study reiterates the need to address the mediator role of alternative assessment to succeed in online courses.</span></p>

Transforming sustainability education through transdisciplinary practice.

Addressing urban sustainability challenges through transformative learning requires learners to be receptive to alternative viewpoints and to critically analyse their own assumptions and worldviews. Higher education institutions have an important role to play in addressing such challenges through their capacity to bring together diverse stakeholders and implement structured learning activities that can enable transformation on a personal and societal level. This article presents a case study of how urban sustainability has been incorporated into various courses run by the TD (transdisciplinary) School at the University of Technology Sydney. The findings illustrate that a transdisciplinary approach to higher education can facilitate transformative learning through a focus on real-world challenges, complex systems thinking, the integration of diverse knowledges and reflexivity. The lessons emerging from the case study demonstrate the importance of both enabling students to obtain a transdisciplinary skillset through their education and ensuring that educators adopt a transdisciplinary mindset to curriculum design.

Peer learning in clinical placements in psychiatry for undergraduate nursing students: preceptors and students' perspective.

AimTo describe the experiences of peer learning in psychiatric inpatient settings during clinical placement of undergraduate nursing students and to highlight the possibility for peer learning in psychiatric outpatient settings.DesignA qualitative inductive design.MethodQuestionnaires with 14 students and 12 preceptors in inpatient and outpatient care and interviews with one student and one preceptor in outpatient care were analysed with content analysis.ResultsStudents and preceptors perceived learning benefits with peer learning. They described how learning increased through exchange of knowledge and how collaboration created security and independence, structured learning activities were appreciated as a learning tool. Incompatibility of students was an issue that could be overcome. Peer learning was perceived to contribute to a secure learning atmosphere, increased self‐confidence and to provide a deeper understanding of psychiatric nursing. Peer learning was described as promoting discussion and reflection on practice and preparing nursing students for their future profession.

THE IMPACT OF THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE INSIDE-OUTSIDE LEARNING MODEL TOWARDS THE ABILITY TO REMEMBER HADITHS

Purpose of the study: The purpose of this study was to determine the impact of the implementation of the inside-outside collaboration learning model (MIOC) on memorizing the hadith of students in Madrasah Ibtidaiyah.
 Methodology: The method used in the study used a quasi-experimental design using a pretest and posttest. Through the pretest and posttest, the implementation phase is carried out in the class which is used as the research sample. The sample in this study were all students in grades 3, 4, and 5 of the Ibtidaiyah Madrasah in Ponorogo Regency as many as 100 students.
 Main Findings: The results showed that there was an increase in memorization results of students who were subjected to the MIOC learning model on students' hadith memorization abilities by the use of modification on the hardest learning method.
 Implication/Application of this study: The results of this study are useful in the development of children's education, especially at the stage of basic education based on religion which is commonly called Madrasah Ibtidaiyah in teaching the subjects of the Koran.
 Novelty/Originality of this study: Modifications of the Inside-Outside Collaborative Learning Model have structured learning activities so that it can be done by each group member which is a realization of equal participation. Thus learning memorization of traditions that can stimulate student activity by involving cooperation between students.

Preceptors' experiences of using structured learning activities as part of the peer learning model: A qualitative study

The clinical environment is a vital component of nurse education, constantly changing due to constraints of the current health care systems such as increasing number of students and a limited number of preceptors. Peer learning, is gaining momentum as an educational model highly suitable for clinical placements. The peer learning model incorporates structured learning activities that support student activity, but little is reported of the actual structure and content of those activities. Thereby, the aim of this study was to explore precepting nurses’ experience of using structured learning activities as part of the peer learning model during clinical placement. We used a qualitative research approach, using two open self-administered global questions. The result is based on the analysis of the written responses from 62 preceptors. Four categories followed the analysis: An opportunity for collaboration, An occasion for reflection, A new educational structure, and Recommendations for development. The preceptors perceived the structured learning activities as beneficial for increased collaboration and reflection among students. Moreover, utilizing the structured learning activities was perceived to be time saving for the preceptors, however this is an area where further research is needed.

Team-based learning (TBL): a community of practice

BackgroundRapid changes in medical practice have a large impact on the demands faced by educators in preparing students for future participation in a multifaceted healthcare workforce. Competencies required by today’s medical graduates encompass the ability to effectively collaborate, communicate and problem solve. The learning needs of medical students have also changed over time. Today’s medical students are highly interconnected, enjoying teamwork and collaborative practice, and desire continuous, explicit feedback. They want structured learning activities, with clear expectations, and enjoy a sense of accomplishment on their achievements. The conflation of these issues has seen many medical schools adopt the model of Team-based learning (TBL). Using the conceptual framework of communities of practice, we sought to qualitatively explore students’ and teachers’ experience of TBL in Year 1 of a graduate entry medical program.MethodsConvenience sampling was used to select 169/350 (48%) Year 1 students who completed three TBL sessions. Each TBL session was facilitated by three senior clinicians. Following participation in the TBLs, students were invited to attend focus groups, and all facilitators (n = 9) were invited to attend interviews. A coding framework was developed to code the entire dataset, using the theoretical lens of communities of practice.Results34/169 (20%) of students attended focus groups. Three facilitators (3/9, 33%) were interviewed. Students and facilitators felt the structure and organisation of TBL made students accountable for their learning and team contributions. The combined expertise and clinical experience of facilitators, with immediate feedback helped groups to work both independently and collaboratively. Facilitators found working with their peers in the TBLs to be a rewarding experience.ConclusionsThe community of practice found in the TBL classes, provided an enriching and rewarding learning environment that motivated students to build on their basic knowledge and apply what had been learnt. The interactions of experienced, senior clinicians as facilitators, sharing their expertise within a clinical context, prompted effective student engagement in learning and understanding. Our change in curriculum design and pedagogy will assist in preparing medical students for demands of the increasingly complex healthcare systems in which they will work.

Attending Physicians' Perspectives of Resident Academic Half Day

Phenomenon: Academic health centers face significant challenges trying to improve medical education while meeting patient care needs. In response to problems with traditional forms of didactic education, many residency programs have transitioned to Academic Half Day (AHD), a curricular model in which learning is condensed into half-day blocks. In this model, trainees have protected educational time free from clinical responsibilities. However, an understanding of the impact on attending physicians and patient care when residents depart clinical sites for learning activities has not been well described. We sought to explore attending physicians’ perspectives when residents depart clinical sites to attend AHD. Approach: We performed a qualitative study with a grounded theory approach using individual semistructured interviews (December 2016–April 2017) of attending physicians who worked at inpatient and emergency department clinical sites from which residents departed to attend AHD. We used the constant comparative method, generating codes using an iterative approach and continuing sampling until saturation was reached. Major themes were identified and disagreements were resolved by consensus. Findings: Fifteen attending physicians from 6 clinical services were interviewed. Data analysis yielded 5 themes: emotional strain of workload, technology and systems challenges, patient safety and care concerns, disrupted resident learning, and the challenge to optimize resident education. Attending physicians, already working on busy services, felt frustrated and perceived having an increased workload when residents departed for AHD. They were concerned about safely entering orders in the electronic health record, impeded patient workflow, and further disruption of resident schedules already disrupted by duty hour restrictions and continuity clinic. Attending physicians described the importance of experiential learning from caring for patients and from structured didactic learning; however, the optimal balance was uncertain. Insights: We found that attending physicians experienced significant emotional strain, faced technological challenges, and were concerned about impeded workflow and patient safety when residents departed clinical sites for AHD. This is likely to be true whenever residents are pulled out of the clinical setting for any reason. Educators need to partner with hospital administrators to provide appropriate support for attending physicians when residents leave clinical sites, evaluate the effectiveness of different educational models, and determine how structured learning activities fit into the overall curriculum.

Using Text Messages To Encourage Meaningful Self-Assessment Outside of the Classroom

Recent articles in this Journal have advocated for focusing instruction on core ideas of the discipline and moving assessment beyond content knowledge to also eliciting evidence about what students can do with their knowledge. Yet, the deep connected learning supported by this kind of instruction and assessment requires students to engage in meaningful learning activities both within and outside of the classroom. We can structure learning activities within our classes that require students to use and apply their knowledge, construct explanations and arguments, and engage in discussion with others; however, we have less control of what students do outside of the classroom. Further, meaningful engagement of students with these types of assessments outside the classroom requires a means for closing the assessment loop, using student responses to inform instruction and support learning and development of these skills. This paper describes a free and easy to use system, combining Remind and Google Forms, that ...