BACKGROUND CONSIDERATIONS Let me begin by putting some cards on the table. My perspective is that of someone trained more than forty years ago in western European history, but who has since worked almost entirely on the history of China, primarily from sources in the original language but almost always within an explicitly or implicitly comparative framework. I wrote my doctoral thesis on the first functioning formally, that is electorally, democratic institution in China. This was the city council of the Chinese part of Shanghai from 1905-1914. I spent a lot of time looking for elements of proto-democracy in late-imperial China, and found them to be real and interesting, but late, and slight in comparison to the ideas and pressures emanating from the modern European presence in China (Elvin 1967; 1968; 1996). After that I turned mainly to other aspects of pre-modern China, and began by contributing to the upward re-evaluation of the Chinese technology and economy of the medieval and late-imperial periods in which Jacques Gernet, Joseph Needham, Robert Hartwell, and others led the way in the West (Elvin 1972; 1973a; 1975a; 1977; 1995a; 1996). My own particular role was to re-analyze and reformulate the rich empirical work of the two generations of Japanese scholarship on which a large part of this re-evaluation now ultimately rests. Names like those of Kato Shigeshi, Amano Motonosuke, Miyazaki Ichisada, Sudo Yoshiyuki, Yabuuchi Kiyoshi, Shiba Yoshinobu and other major figures from Japanese sinology dealing with economic and scientific themes in Chinese history are a currently nearly forgotten part of the bedrock of our current understanding, both 'orthodox' and 'revisionist,' however these slippery terms are interpreted. I spent the years from 1990 through 2002 mostly working on the environmental history of China (Elvin 1993b; 1995a; 1995b; 1998a; 1998b; 2002a; 2002b; 2003; 2004a). To some extent I thus lost the thread of the rapid developments in world social and economic historiography during these years. So I am out of date in this regard. At the same time, I am perhaps slightly ahead of it with respect to the history of the environment, which only plays a limited part in the themes tackled by Joseph Bryant in his critique, and Jack Goldstone, and Rosaire Langlois in their commentaries. Environmental history is, however, important in providing a crosscheck on many ideas developed by economic and sociological historians (Elvin 1993b; 1998b; 2002a). I think that the issues forcefully, and at times brilliantly, raised by Bryant, together with the ripostes of his two critics, can lead to progress in clarifying what it is that we should be trying to explain, the key explicanda of the debates about the West and 'the rest'. (1) It is worse than useless to develop theories to explain what, so far as careful scholarship can tell us, has not been the case. (Put another way, the reconstruction of the factual 'stories' to the extent our knowledge allows is still of primary importance, even if we are more conscious than in earlier days of the many-layered epistemological obstacles that can be involved. (2)) This is not just a truism. One of the long-term problems of comparative social history in this area has been the serious, and often avoidable, empirical errors made in the past regarding China even by such giants of the field as Max Weber and Fernand Braudel (Elvin 1983b; 1984; 2002c). The unsentimental clarification of what it is that actually needs to be explained is the initial duty both of the general theorist and the specialists who supply the more detailed analyses on which wider formulations are based. In particular, it is necessary to take a cool and unemotional look at western imperialism and colonialism. Both imperialism and colonialism have been common in the long sweep of human history. China, a non-western empire of long standing (Blunden and Elvin 1983a; 1998), was still itself engaging actively in imperialism on a substantial scale in the 18th century (Perdue 2005), and even in the later 19th, with the re-conquest of eastern Turkestan (Blunden and Elvin 1983a; 1998). …