Pierre Trudeau on His Foreign Policy

Abstract

In the summer of 1988, Robert Bothwell and Jack Granatstein were pursuing their research for the final volume in the Canadian Institute of International Affairs' series Canada in World Affairs. As the concluding volume in the long-lived series, the ordinary two-year time span was abandoned; instead, the book was to cover the 1968 to 1984 period, or, in other words, all of Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau's foreign policy (as well as the Joe Clark interregnum). Moreover, it had been many years since the preceding volumes had appeared. This delay gave us the opportunity to make use of a wider range of sources than in most ofthe earlier volumes, and we secured access to a very broad spectrum of government and private papers. We also conducted dozens of interviews.1 But we had not been able to arrange interview with until Ivan Head, his key foreign policy adviser for much of his time in power, graciously intervened to set up a meeting for us. Unfortunately, Bothwell was in France on the selected date, which could not be changed, and Granatstein conducted the interview alone.As was our regular practice, Granatstein took notes during the rather than using a tape recorder. Immediately after the interview, he typed up a memorandum, not a transcript, ofthe discussion. This memorandum, cited as Trudeau conversation and used as a source in Pirouette: Pierre and Canadian Foreign Policy, is reproduced below with minor stylistic and grammatical corrections. The original memorandum can also be found in Bothwell' s papers in the University of Toronto archives and in the Granatstein fonds the York University archives, along with memoranda of all the interviews conducted for the book.PIERRE TRUDEAU INTERVIEW, MONTREAL, 30 JUNE 1988I met with Mr and Ivan Head over lunch the Ritz Carlton Hotel from 12:15 to 2 p.m. The understanding is that while everything is on the record, this is to be treated as a conversation, not as interview.Trudeau was dressed in a suit and tie, looked 15 years younger than his age (though he has liver spots on his hands and face), and he was sharp and tough. His answers could wander, however, he could forget questions, and he could get confused. Head had to help him out a few times, and once (see below), he went quite astray. He is quite vain, proud of his accomplishments, and not happy about criticism.We began with some discussion of the Donald Jamieson diary of the October 1970 crisis that I edited for Saturday Night (and L'actualite). pointed out that Jamieson was away during the critical period and didn't know much about Quebec in any case, though he was a good fellow. As for himself, he hoped the story ofthe October Crisis would come out.I asked about the question of Quebec-France relations and France's improper activities. There was nothing secret about this, he said. Whenever we found out they were doing something (like the efforts in Canada of Philippe Rossillon [a quasi-official representative from de Gaulle's committees for the promotion of the French language]), he had made a public crack about it. Certainly in his view there was little difference between France under Presidents de Gaulle, Pompidou, or Giscard, though it was different with Mitterrand. Giscard was sympathetic to the separatists because he needed Gaullist votes. He had long talks with Giscard about this, and as far as he could tell his support was a political concession rather than a plot. The Gaullists were always plotting to get Quebec out as far as possible. He recalled a story about Gerard Pelletier being told by a very senior French minister the UN the time ofthe 1984 election that at last you may have a French Canadian as Prime Minister, meaning Brian Mulroney. Pelletier said, What about Trudeau? The answer was that was an Anglo with a French name - and this, said, after 16 years in power.To Trudeau, the French were shit disturbers, playing safe in case the separatists won their referendum so they could say they had been there to help. …