Jessica Barker in conversation with Joana Ramôa Melo and Pedro Redol

Abstract

Jessica Barker: Could you speak about the exhibition you curated at Batalha in 2015, Places of Prayer in the Monastery of Batalha?Pedro Redol: The intention of this project was to try to understand, and in some way compensate for, the exaggerated weight on nationalistic symbolism, to try to go back to the main way in which this religious house worked in the past. The monastery ceased to be a religious house in 1834, when all religious houses in Portugal, especially male religious houses, ceased to exist by law. Batalha found a new status as a national institution because it is a symbol of Portuguese independence in the 1385 battle [of Aljubarrota] against the Castilian troops. So the monastery was rehabilitated, given an additional importance in this aspect, only a few years after the extinction of the religious community. For this reason it was also the first big restoration of a Gothic monument in Portugal, starting in late 1840 and early 1841. This status as national memorial was reinforced in the twentieth century, under the period of the dictatorship of Antonio de Oliveira Salazar, and even before when the memorial to the Unknown Soldier was installed. There are various memorials in different Portuguese towns and villages but the main one - the most important one - was installed in Batalha in 1921 after the First World War. So this is how the monastery came down to us. The idea of Batalha as a place of prayer and worship is something of much more recent rediscovery, a matter which hasn't been investigated until very recently.JB: And the exhibition Places of Prayer brought together objects, or records of objects that used to be in the monastery.PR: Yes. Much has disappeared and part of the labour in preparing that exhibition and the catalogue was trying to understand what the whole monastery was, including what has disappeared. Some objects are still missing; for example at the MNAA [Museu Nacional de Arte Antiga] in Lisbon there are parts of altarpieces and other objects from altars in the Founder's Chapel.Joana Ramoa Melo: I think the general public isn't really aware of what the Founder's Chapel and the tomb of Joao and Philippa were meant to be in their original contexts. There was a strong process of secularization of the entire structure throughout the nineteenth century, especially from the dissolution of the religious orders onwards. This was a moment in which the appearance of the chapel and the tomb was fundamentally changed. I believe that this is the main value and significance that has lasted for the general public - the political dimension of the chapel, the idea of a place where a new dynasty is commemorated. This is seen in the very designation of that building as a 'Founder's Chapel', which is not original to its construction but rather a contemporary label which reflects the political and patriotic perception of this structure. People aren't aware of all the lost items of the chapel.The latest academic studies have tried to focus particularly on highlighting the original conception of the chapel, its relation to all these other artistic items, and all these other meanings that have been lost with these items. The exhibition and catalogue for Places of Prayer reflected that intention to get people closer, more aware of the religious and spiritual nature of Batalha which, after all, is a monastery, and not just part of a historic monument.It is very interesting that the publication linked to the restoration process, which was published in the middle of the nineteenth century by Mouzinho de Albuquerque, avoids the word 'monastery' and focuses instead on the word 'monument'. This seems like a subtle distinction but it is a culturally charged choice that has deeply marked the contemporary perception of Batalha. It is now seen as a monument, not a monastery.JB: Could you say something about the project, 'Monumental Polychromy: Revealing Medieval Colours at Batalha', which you are leading on the technical analysis of the wall paintings in the Founder's Chapel? …